Is enlightenment a reality for the average Buddhist?

[Maria22]

I have been heavily absorbed in literature on Buddhism upon my discovery. I am intrigued and fascinated by the idea of enlightenment; yet don't fully understand the concept. I would assume it is different for every individual, seeing how no person is the same or perceives the world the same way. But I still don't understand exactly what happens, is the individual transformed after they reach enlightenment? And furthermore, is it a realistic to assume that the average person who practices meditation and the teachings of Buddha, without the intent of becoming a spiritual leader, will ever reach enlightenment? :confused:

[ZenLunatic]

If you haven't, read my little zen story here http://www.newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183&page=2&pp=10



Here's a little bit what enlightenment might be like (I don't know, I haven't been there). I got this from Steven Hagan's book, Buddhism:Plain and Simple

Look at this picture. There's a cow there. If you don't see it at first, it's ok. Your mind isn't conditioned yet to see it. But once you do, you'll ALWAYS see the cow, and nothing else!

http://www.freepgs.com/ls57tiger/illusion/illusion22.gif


When you see the cow, are you transformed? Yes and no. :) We are always in a state of transformation. We are always becoming. A favorite quote of mine is (edited for sexist language!) "No one can ever walk through the same river twice, for the next time, it is not the same river, and you are not the same person"

So transformed in the sense as you've now had that experience, and not transformed in that you're not a butterfly leaving a coocoon... you are the pupa, cocoon, and butterfly all at once.

Fly away happily :D

[comicallyinsane]

I saw the cow right away but I don't know if I would have seen it if you didn't tell me.

[wolfscalissi]

Enlightenment is not attained. all sentient beings are Buddhas. we lift the dark veil of percieved knowledge and find our true Bodhi Mind.

Thus the "Sutra of Perfect Awakening" has the Buddha teach that, like gold within its ore, Bodhi is always there within the being's mind but requires the obscuring mundane ore (the surrounding defilements of samsara and of impaired, unawakened perception) to be removed. The Buddha declares:

"Good sons, it is like smelting gold ore. The gold does not come into being because of smelting ... Even though it passes through endless time, the nature of the gold is never corrupted. It is wrong to say that it is not originally perfect. The Perfect Enlightenment of the Tathagata [Buddha] is also like this."

^gassho^

[tkargorman]

Zen,

What if I can't see the cow?

[federica]

don't worry... sooner or later, you will..... ;)

[ZenLunatic]

Keep looking!

And maybe drop your desire to see the cow :lol:


I, for one, have never been able to see those 3D images on the posters that were popular in the 90s. I'd get close, realize it, then lose (or regain, as the case may be) focus.

This isn't like that. Once you see it, you will always see it!

[comicallyinsane]

Keep looking!

And maybe drop your desire to see the cow :lol:


I, for one, have never been able to see those 3D images on the posters that were popular in the 90s. I'd get close, realize it, then lose (or regain, as the case may be) focus.

This isn't like that. Once you see it, you will always see it!


I'll tell you this. Everytime I look at the cow I see something new that I didn't see before. I think the cow pic is a good example of how we are always changing. Just like when you watch a movie over and over and you can see something you missed after seeing it 100 times.

[federica]

Yeah.....'Blazing sazddles' did that for me..... :crazy: :lol:

[comicallyinsane]

That happens with almost every movie I own. And I own around 500.

[federica]

Now.... Isn't that a form of attachment? which ones would you save if your house burned down? And why? Indeed, why bother....?

[comicallyinsane]

If my house was burning down I would save my family and get out. Movies can be replced.

[Elohim]

Well, I have just been reading a book by Thanissaro Bhikkhu where he compares the use of Nibbana, the Goal, and the different words used to discribe the "ending of dukkha". The descriptions and explainations the Buddha used are taken from the Pali Tipitaka and broken down. It's not an easy read, so if may not be as helpful, but if you really need to know what Nibbana is, it explains it the way the Buddha did. In all reality, it seems there is no true way to explain it in words. It is without any reference point, so there is no way to describe it. That is why he used the refernece of a fire going out, except it was used to eplain the Goal to brahmins, who had a philosphy about fire from the Vedas and Upanisads. You can request the book from Wat Metta or you can view it here at access to insight. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/likefire/index.html
Enjoy.

[comicallyinsane]

Sorry but I don't really understand the meaning of your post.

[Elohim]

The point I suppose is to say it can't really be explained. It is only known. Yes, anyone can become enlightened whether a monk, lay person, man, or woman. They don't need to be a "spiritual teacher". They just have to free themselves of "tahna" or craving. Words I think are useless in this matter. That is why the Path is stressed so much. It points the way, leads you to the goal, and that is all that matters since the goal is beyond convention.

[wolfscalissi]

well said Elohim. If a thousand words were written about the smell of a flower could you read them and know the smell? Buddhism points to the flower and tells you to smell for yourself. from the first sound of the first word enlightenment is lost.

^gassho^

[comicallyinsane]

LOL Okay that makes sense. We were talking about my movie collection and the attachment and I got confuse when you made your post. All cleared up.

[tkargorman]

For some... lost for others

[abaruby]

Does anyone here know anyone who has become enlightened?

[comicallyinsane]

Not me but no suprise there. LOL

[wolfscalissi]

Does anyone here know anyone who has become enlightened?

I guess you have to define "know" I have been in sehins and spoken with two for certain. but know as in friends with hang out and have coffee with? no. My biggest impression with the two of them was just an undeniable honesty and clarity about them. the things they would tell you were inarguably the truth. even still in the throws of conditioned mind the truth of the words was almost palpable. I once read that we have all met enlightened people and probably didnt know it because they were "ultra-mundane" or so "ordinary" that our egoic minds could not see them for what they were. interesting.

^gassho^